This month I’ll be participating in Deana Barnhart’s Gearin’ Up to Get an Agent blogfest. Week One starts things off with a bang as participants post a question we’ve always had about writing. Mine is this …
Which do you think is better: Publishing with the Big Five, publishing with an indie or self-publishing—and why?
You don’t have to be participating in the blogfest to comment, although participants are encouraged to hop around one another’s blogs trying to help each other out.
To get the dialogue going, here are a couple of well-written points of view from published authors:
- Why J.L. Campbell prefers self-publishing (http://thecharacterdepot.blogspot.com/2011/06/foray-into-self-publishing.html).
- Why Ebony McKenna hopes authors will hold out for a traditional publisher (http://ejmckennablog.blogspot.com/2011/07/money-talks.html).
- Want a little more food for thought? Some agents are acting as literary consultants to help authors self-publish (http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2011/06/literary-agents-try-new-role-as-self-publishing-consultants167.html).
53 comments:
Hi Michelle,
I think we're right in the middle of a transitionary period so it's hard to tell what's best right now, things are changing so quickly.
I think the big publishers still have the edge at the moment, but they have to get behind a book to really make it sell. They release a lot of books in a lowkey fashion in a 'lets see what happens' kind of way and if you're in that group it's a bit of a crap shoot, and you might as well be self-publishing.
Their real advantage is marketing and publicity, if they aren't going to give you that I'm not sure it's worth the huge cut they take.
Be interesting to see how things change.
mood (fellow blog hopper)
Moody Writing
@mooderino
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, @mooderino! I agree this is a time of great transition, and what works better for one author and genre might not for another. Maybe it's more about having choices than being overwhelmed with options.
I also agree authors will realize the most success if we're partnering with a publisher who is as passionate about promoting our books as we are; here is where I think indies might have the edge.
Wishing you a great Fourth of July!
Michelle
This is always food for thought. We had quite a discussion in a critique group yesterday about the value, or lack thereof, of agents. Some are putting themselves in real conflict of interest situations these days. I don't know how much time or energy I'm going to put into finding an agent. If I do decide to try to get one, I'm going to be very careful who it is. I've heard some real horror stories.
And a happy fourth of July to you, Michelle.
Thank you very much, Rosi, for adding in agents to the mix. I've heard others who agree they don't think what they'll receive is worth the fee they'll pay, but I've heard others who swear having an agent is the only way to go, as they can negotiate better and more profitable contracts and ideally will be another set of editorial eyes.
Some more food for thought ... Do authors feel a stronger need to have an agent when publishing with a bigger house than an indie? Also, members of the Authors Guild receive free book contract reviews from experienced legal staff; what do authors think about this option?
You've just upped the volume on this conversation, Rosi. :)
Michelle
Hi, Michelle! That's a big question. I don't think there's any one right answer anymore, it's up to the individual and there are benefits to any of them. No matter which way you choose, the ability to market your book is going to be key.
Nice to meet you! :)
I'm not sure which is better or more advantageous but I know I dream of being traditionally published. This is probably because it's what I grew up hoping would happen. Self-publishing still has that stigma surrounding it because I know how easily it is for a book to not be ready and yet still be published.
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Pk Hrezo, and thank you very much for following! I think you've summed up the options perfectly: Each has its pros and cons, but in the end it's all about writing a great book and getting out there and marketing it. :)
Michelle
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Juliana! I also dream of being traditionally published, for the very reasons you mentioned. I wouldn't mind being responsible for everything it would take to self-publish a book, so it would be the same caliber of a traditionally repped novel. The biggest thing that will keep holding me back is the concern that readers will get tired of wading through books that weren't ready for the market and assume mine is the same way and I'm just saying I think it's wonderful.
I hope you had a great Fourth of July holiday!
Michelle
Gosh, this decision gets harder and harder. I have invested fourteen months in my WIP and have already paid for one professional edit and two writing courses, and countless print-outs for my trusted readers. I'm expecting to spend another eight months, another pro edit, and one more writing course and half a dozen more print outs before it's ready, not to mention the library of research material I've also acquired.
If I ePublish on one of the biggies, I risk going out at the 'begging' price (that was a good point, well made). I don't really want to be part of the race to the bottom. On the one hand it is a good platform from which to launch yourself as a debut author. On the other hand, there are those scary stories from authors who have had their content -- and revenue! -- stolen by pirates who copy and paste their text and put it out under another title and cover design. I certainly don't want to have done two years hard work to have that happen to me.
If I self-publish in the traditional way, I will end up with a garage full of unsold books, a big bill and I'll be one of those sad people running round trying to get people to buy it. If I'm lucky I might get a postcard from the printer, on his Caribbean holiday, paid for by me.
No, I just have to hang on to the hope that one day I will convince an agent I have something worth selling. I have plenty of promotional ideas if I do land a publisher. I think, even now, there is no substitute for the industry endorsement that says your work is of the required standard.
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Fiona, and thank you very much for following! I admire your battle plan for writing the best possible manuscript and sense you will receive a book contract because of this.
I've heard others mention that self-publishing can be a way to establish a platform, but it by no means is the only or the best way; again, it's about options. I agree that self-publishing the traditional way would be madness; POD and eBooks would be much wiser.
You make another excellent point that almost nothing can compare to an industry endorsement. In the meantime, we should never stop believing in ourselves.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
I think it's a personal question. No singular approach will fit everyone. It depends on your patience, what you want, your goals. Personally, I knew I wasn't going to get one of the major five and I didn't have enough time to self-publish, so indie is the way to go for me.
Thank you for stopping by Bird's-eye View, McKenzie, and for being a new follower. I think you said it perfectly about no one answer being right for everyone. And I have a soft spot for indies myself. :)
Michelle
Great question! It is a changing world of publishing for sure... I still dream of the Big 5, but I know I'll still have to do most of my own marketing. I'd certainly consider the other two options if nothing panned out with the first.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of pluses to indies. They invest a lot more of themselves in you than a large company, therefore they make an effort to get your books sold. Usually the number of staff is much smaller, so the whole company (or at least most of it) actively cares about your book. You get more control over things like cover design and contract negotiations.
However, if I can actually make something out of this business (and potential career) I think I'll find myself drooling over HarperCollins or Little, Brown or something. Because let's face it, we all want the recognition from a huge company.
It might depend on what genre you're writing in. I write middle grade novels, and I don't think many kids in that age group have e-readers (yet!), so I think I'd stick with the Big 5. Plus, like McKenzie, I'd like the recognition.
But things are changing fast, and I think we need to be flexible so I might think differently if you asked me in a few months.
I think it depends on the writer. It seems there are a lot of options for writers to choose, but it's up to the writer on what they think will best fit them. Also, I believe the writers need to research what their best fit is.
Whichever suits you I don't think it is as bad these days if you change your mind and try another way afterwards. The key is the marketing whichever you choose.
I hear a lot of people say that if the big publishers aren't going to help with marketing, what good are they - but they still do other things that require a lot of work. And I mean outside the editing, coverdesign, printing...they have the contacts to get your books on shelves (physically or virtually) with the stores, too.
That being said, I think it all depends on the person. Right now is a great time for the motivated self-starter to make their name in self-publishing or indie publishing. But if you prefer more of a professional support structure, traditional is the way to go. I think you have to know yourself and your strengths and weaknesses to make that decision.
I agree with Loralie that self-publishing is good if you have a great platform (Talli Roland) and are able to connect with people.
That being said, I'm one of those who loves the idea of publishing with one of the big five. Guess that makes me a snob. :P
Hi, Alexia, I think you've hit upon another fundamental truth; no matter what route we as authors choose, in the end we're still responsible for doing most of our own marketing. From the excerpts of your writing that I've seen, I'd say you have a very excellent chance at the Big Five. :)
Michelle
I agree with a lot of what's been said. There are so many options out there but the big risk as a new writer is diving head first into what looks like a nice deep pool, and discovering the bottom is far too close. I've talked to a lot of writers who just want to stick their tongues out at traditional publishing and think self-pubbing is as easy as putting the book out there, making a few online posts and watching the money roll in.
I like having the option of self-publishing and it's something I might try in a year or so, but getting an agent and a contract from one of the big five is still part of my writing goals.
McKenzie, I wish you only the best of luck in fulfilling your dream of having a publishing contract from one of the larger houses. I believe you have an excellent chance, as it sounds as if you've identified what you want and what it takes to get there.
One of my favorite quotes is one from Thomas Edison: "Opportunity is missed by most people, because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." And that's what it comes down to, regardless of who our publisher is. But as Mary Higgins Clark says, if you want to be happy for a day, win the lottery; if you want to be happy for life, love what you do.
Keep on writing!
Michelle
Both! I think some genres are a perfect match for indie publication. It's a matter of knowing how your audience, or rather the audience you want to tap into, gets access to their books.
Hi, Andrea, and welcome to Bird's-eye View! That's a great point you make that the genre you're writing will help influence your decision. It's also true what you say that what works today we might need to rethink in a few months or years.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
Hi, Christine, welcome to Bird's-eye View and for following! You make another excellent point when you say writers need to research what their best fit is. And as Andrea says, that likely will change over time and with the genre you are writing.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
Hi, Catherine, welcome to Bird's-eye View, and thank you for following! You make an excellent point to remember, that we always can change our minds based upon new facts and situations. And of course good marketing along with good writing are the foundation of any successful author's career.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Loralie! It does seem as if one of the biggest reasons authors consider self-pubbing is they feel that if they're being asked to take on increasing marketing responsibilities, they'd like to have more control over the process and a chance to keep a larger percentage of the royalties.
On the other hand, can we as individual authors ever reach the same number of contacts as a traditional publisher, whether they are one of the largest or a well-respected indie? Self-pubbers, for now anyway, will have some doors shut on them without that stamp of approval.
I also agree with your statement that you have to know your strengths and weaknesses before making any decisions.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
I have heard so many sides to this question and tons of excellent points to all sides. I really think it is most important to do what you FEEL is right for YOU. One person that is perfectly comfortable with the indie route may not be with traditional and so on.
Personally I'm like Juliana, I have always dreamed of being traditionally published, so I think no matter the rise or fall of the others, this is the route I want to go. THat may change over time though, who knows.
I also agree with Pk, that marketing is really the most important thing. I mean seriously, there are big hits in all these groups and people who fall short. Most important is getting your work out there to be read...and of course people have to love it once they read it:)
Thanks for signing up for the fest! You had a great question:)
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Alleged Author! I don't think that makes you a snob for having one of the Big Five be your publishing goal. It means you have taken the time to research what is best for you and your work. I'd say that makes you smart. :)
Michelle
Hi, Stephanie,
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, and thank you for being a new follower!
I agree with you 100 percent that if an author decides to self-pub to thumb their nose at traditional publishing or because they think it is an easy way to get to keep all of the profits, they'll be in for a painfully rude awakening.
I'm with you that I like having the option of self-publishing and it's something I might try one day, but getting an agent and a contract from a traditional publisher, whether one of the Big Five or an indie, is still part of my writing goals too.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
I'm going with Deanna's "what feels right" answer. I think all of the options can be right for different MS and different goals.
I personally want to see what the biggie's have to say (or not say) about my MS first. I want to see if it is something that someone else, completely unbiased, thinks it is something that will make them money.
If I strike out there completely I will consider if there is a smaller market that would be happy if I indie/e-published.
I also would be happy just to give it to my kids at the end...so, maybe I'm not the person to ask ;)
Hi, East Coaster, welcome to Bird's-eye View and thank you very much for following! I love the point you make about it being a matter of knowing your audience.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
Hi, Deana,
Thank you very much for your excellent comment and for hosting the best-ever blogfest!
I agree with you 100 percent that people have to love your book once they've read it, otherwise all the marketing in the world will be for naught.
I hope you're enjoying the blogfest as much as your participants are. :)
Michelle
Thanks Michelle, I am!
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Shelly, and thank you very much for following!
I think being repped by an indie would be just as validating as a thumbs up from one of the larger publishers. For example, I can't think of a better PB publisher than Peachtree Publishers; if they were to accept one of my nostalgic PBs, I would feel validated beyond belief. And if Chris Soentpiet were to be the illustrator, my joy would know no bounds. :)
I hope this finds you having a great day!
Michelle
There are a lot of big ones, but also mid-sized. And there places like Candlewick, which used to be independent, but were bought up. Even so, they still do what they always did, though with a little more financial backing. I just want a decent publisher to like my book and publish it. Let's hope if I keep at it, I can make it happen.
I self published my first picture book and sold 21 copies even though I have a good on line presence. On my next two picture books I went inde. I'm enjoying their distribution contacts and the additional sales that result. But, I'm not getting rich.
My WIP is a YA historical fiction which is much more time consuming than my picture books were. This time, I'm seeking an agent and hopefully the big 5??? But I do agree that publishing is changing quickly?
I'm following you now.
kathy stemke
Sh Sh Sh Let the Baby Sleep
Hi, Theresa,
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, and thank you very much for following. Ah, Candlewick, another one of my favorite publishers who's on my short list for PBs.
By the way, I also believe that anyone who keeps at it will make it happen. :)
Michelle
I think that depends upon you. If you're not at all into marketing (and that can be a problem regardless of who you publish with), self publishing could be a real problem.
Hi, Kathy,
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, and thank you very much for following. You are a perfect person to comment, as you've been pubbed both ways. You make a very strong case for going a more traditional route, especially for the first book.
Maybe we as authors should spin this question around and ask: Would I consider self-publishing after enjoying success with a publishing house? At least we'd have more experience about what roles and tasks we'd need to take on.
Congratulations on the release of Sh Sh Sh Let the Baby Sleep. You already have me hooked by telling me your WIP is a YA historical fiction.
I hope your sales continue to climb; you can always count me in to do a book review and author interview of your historical YA.
Michelle
Hi, Donna,
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, and thanks for following!
If there were a common theme to these comments, I would say it's that authors must also be successful marketers regardless of any other variables. Too easy: Anyone who can write several thousand words, have our words critiqued and rejected, and write the perfect query letter and synopsis should be able to promote ourselves like the troopers we are. :)
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
Michelle,
So many good answers, but I'm with the camp that says it's a personal decision. Any of them can work, and any of them can fail. Good marketing can usually promote a book published by anyone.
Nice to meet you through this fest! I'm following you now. I'm at laurabwriter.blogspot.com
Hi, Laura, welcome to Bird's-eye View, and thank you for being a new follower! Instead of being overwhelmed with choices, it's nice to know we as authors have options and that we can re-evaluate them at any time.
Wishing you a great day!
Michelle
What a great question, Michelle.
I know for me, I want an agent and a traditional publisher. My book won't feel real until I have a HARDBACK copy of it in my hands. I would never self publish because that actual book is part of my dream--not so much the money.
But everyone is different.
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Angie, and thank you very much for following! I must confess that even though I know e-books are the future and they're kinder to the trees, I love the idea of holding a hardback in my hands--especially one with one of our names on the spine. :)
Michelle
Oh my gosh, Michelle, I love that Thomas Edison quote. I am so going to use that.
Thanks for your warm encouragement. And even if it is hard work, we all get into it knowingly. Besides, with so much waiting around, it's not like writers run around like chickens with their heads chopped off all day every day. The loss of human-like ways only comes around with either The Call or acceptance letters.
Your blog has grown quite a bit since I last checked.
Hi, McKenzie,
You might be selling yourself short, as I'm not sure all who start off aspiring to be an author know how much hard work it is. The fact that you do and that you're still persevering with eyes wide open is a huge credit to you--and probably a great indication of your future success.
I noticed that your blog has grown too! I hope it now shows me as a follower. Either it didn't take the first time (human operator error!) or I'm now following twice. :)
Wishing you a great day,
Michelle
I think the answers above have covered anything I have to say to the question. I like what Small Time Shelly Brown said.
Great question!
Welcome to Bird's-eye View, Rachel, and thank you for following!
I just had the opportunity to look at some of your artwork, and it is beautiful, and I'm an enthusiastic new follower. :)
Michelle
Great question and since I am late to the party as usual I get to read all these great answers!
A party like this one is always going on, Siv; welcome to Bird's-eye View!
By the way, I think the consensus could be summed up as follows: Market as if you're self-pubbing whether you're going a more traditional route or not.
Have a great weekend, everyone, and thanks for participating in the conversation. :)
Michelle
Hi there Michelle. Just thought I would pop in and let everyone know that Catherine won the FREE manuscript critique I donated for Deana's first week of "Gearin' Up to Get an Agent," blog. We had fun going over her manuscript together, and she now has a keen focus on making her story as tight and terrific as possible. Congratulations Catherine - a fast learner!
Margot’s Magic Carpet -
Books With a WOW Factor
Manuscript Critiques
http://www.margotfinke.com
Thank you very much, Margot, for lending your time and expertise to the first week of Deana's blogfest. You made everyone feel like a winner with the PDF of your children's book.
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